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Concord Bodyguards for Miners in Empire

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Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:35:00 - [1] I think it is time that people in corps who don't want to be griefed or participate in PvP are allowed some protection in Empire space. It would be a good idea if CCP allowed us to "buy protection" from Concord when War decced in Empire. Sort of like paying Mercs or bodyguards. the rates can be hourly, daily...whatever. I don't want to be forced to PvP when I am mining Veldspar in a friggen Empire system. Uh...hello???? I can't defend myself in a Hoarder or a Covetor.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:42:00 - [2] Originally by: Frug Quote: Sort of like paying Mercs or bodyguards Or you could pay mercs or bodyguards. I like to solo mine and I log on at all hours of the day and night. Believe it or not, I don't have a real Merc corp at my personal beckon call.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Asestorian What is with all these posts about griefing in high sec recently? So many new, and some not so new, people who just don't understand what EVE is, what high sec is even. High sec, unlike other games, is not designed to be totally safe. Nowhere in EVE, except in a station, is designed to be perfectly safe, actually, I think the tutorial even says that. CCP have designed EVE as it is for a reason, because that's how they like it. EVE is about survival of the fittest, those who can both defend themselves, and have a strong industrial backbone in a corporation. Those are the successful ones. Nowhere in EVE is safe. Nowhere in EVE will ever be truly safe. Your only choice is to deal with it or quit, because it isn't ever going to change, because the time it does is the time EVE is truly dead. I like how you guys say "just deal with it" but never offer any solutions. At least I came up with an ACTUAL IDEA. My idea is a decent one because Concord could have offices in the NPC stations and the protection can be offered by pushing a button like you would for the refinery or market. They could have a list of prices for various time periods much like the insurance for ships. {lesser times of course. Probably hourly.}
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:57:00 - [4] Originally by: DarkFenix Solo mining. There, I just stated the problem in two words. Solo mining. This is an MMO, which is programmed to benefit those who play as part of a team. If you want to fly around space solo why don't you go play X3 or something. Hmm, i didn't realize I was the only person in this entire game who plays solo sometimes. The tutorial never mentioned that I am not allowed to solo mine either....weird. I guess I should be flogged?
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Gutsani You have a war for a reason, ffs .. if you cant win it, you surrender .. else you fight it. Concord to fight for you in a war, is like removing the complete idea of concord .. What if i want to attack your little mining op with concord protection, will i lose sec status when i attack your bodyguards? Will i be concorded? Why did i declare war on you again? That is a very good question. Why WOULD you declare war on me or my corp? I am not bothering you unless mining Veld is an Ore Barge is somehow a personal insult to you. Go to low sec or 0.0 if you want to PvP ffs
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Patch86 No one said you can't Solo. Its just that, if you choose to play a multiplayer game solo, you're going to have a tougher time of it. As you are. If you want your life to be easier, don't solo. If you want to solo, be prepared to have more difficulties. Uh I already have the "difficulties" of having to haul my own rocks back to the friggen station which cuts down on my already low minning efficiency which means less isk per hour. I think that is penalty enough for going solo. It isn't like I am making isk hand over fist doing this.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Xavier Raines on 16/01/2007 14:15:15 Originally by: Mirasta Contact me in game an i will be willing to park my alt next to you for hours at a time to protect you from the evil PVPers for minimal cost. Awesome but instead of protecting me would you mind doing a little hauling instead?
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Barry Cantona If you dont want to participate in PVP you have chosen the wrong game. What are you talking about? I love PvP. When I sell my Veld, I am PvPing on the market. What I don't like are people who lack a pair ganking me when I am in a Hoarder or Ore Mining barge. Like I said, it is a bit difficult to pvp in those ships for some reason. I think it is because they lack guns but I am not sure.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Refazed Originally by: Xavier Raines That is a very good question. Why WOULD you declare war on me or my corp? I am not bothering you unless mining Veld is an Ore Barge is somehow a personal insult to you. Go to low sec or 0.0 if you want to PvP ffs Actually there is a growing movement to prevent people like you from exploiting the innocent asteroids. Save the Veldspar They should have to consent to your mining lasers debasing their flawlessly cratered surface. I admit that is somewhat funny. Want to hear something else funny? "People like me" help keep your PvP ships costs down by providing the ore to build them.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Anderi Bourdieu Originally by: Schani Kratnorr How would that work? What would be the mechanics? I can see countles exploitable features if a player or group of players were able to involve CONCORD in their wars. What is the definition of a "miner"? Why should anyone paying a fee to fight WITHOUT having concord give a dam, suddenly find themselves at the mercy of NPS ships? What would the cost be like? would systems with a .5 or higher sec rating provide enough ore for it to be profitable? Not to mention the load-balancing issues... Too many problems IMO. At the heart of the original posters suggestion there is a simple request, "I would like to play alone, and not be pestered by wardecs". Right'O mate. Here's what you do. Leave your corporation, thus entering into a so-called "noob corp" or NPC corporation. NPC corporations are not subject to wardecs, and thus you should be fine. Orethieves, random high-sec piracy will still be an issue, but those are the terms of EvE. Another solution could be to set youself up with a few jumpclones and some basic mining ships/equipment at various places. Maybe that way you can avoid the full force of your enemies? To the OP, Would you care to answer some of these excellent points? This is the most constructive post so far... Sure I would love to answer these points. My answer is I don't have a clue and it isn't my job to have one about it because I don't design the game. if I did, I wouldn't be mining isk in a Retriever but making real life money off of people like you who play this game. CCP has the responsibility of making the game fair and fun for all. I presented an idea and if they decided to use it, they would be the ones who would put in the mechanics of that idea so that it couldn't be exploited.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcathonas Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: Anderi Bourdieu Originally by: Schani Kratnorr How would that work? What would be the mechanics? I can see countles exploitable features if a player or group of players were able to involve CONCORD in their wars. What is the definition of a "miner"? Why should anyone paying a fee to fight WITHOUT having concord give a dam, suddenly find themselves at the mercy of NPS ships? What would the cost be like? would systems with a .5 or higher sec rating provide enough ore for it to be profitable? Not to mention the load-balancing issues... Too many problems IMO. At the heart of the original posters suggestion there is a simple request, "I would like to play alone, and not be pestered by wardecs". Right'O mate. Here's what you do. Leave your corporation, thus entering into a so-called "noob corp" or NPC corporation. NPC corporations are not subject to wardecs, and thus you should be fine. Orethieves, random high-sec piracy will still be an issue, but those are the terms of EvE. Another solution could be to set youself up with a few jumpclones and some basic mining ships/equipment at various places. Maybe that way you can avoid the full force of your enemies? To the OP, Would you care to answer some of these excellent points? This is the most constructive post so far... Sure I would love to answer these points. My answer is I don't have a clue and it isn't my job to have one about it because I don't design the game. if I did, I wouldn't be mining isk in a Retriever but making real life money off of people like you who play this game. CCP has the responsibility of making the game fair and fun for all. I presented an idea and if they decided to use it, they would be the ones who would put in the mechanics of that idea so that it couldn't be exploited. CCP have the responsibility of making money through something unique. Old cliche but true: EVE is harsh. It doesn't need to be fun for everyone. It's got something no other game offers. If you don't like that, why do you play? So just because I don't like one thing in the game I shouldn't play it? Incidently, it is "one thing" that quite a few subscribers don't like either. I don't think I "invented the wheel" by not like being ganked in high sec.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Admiral Eos This is stupid... quit. My God, that put me in my place. You are a very intelligent individual. Really you are.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:33:00 - [13] Originally by: DarkFenix Wow I've found a lot of hate here . Fair enough it isn't necessary to flame people like the OP, but I'm hopelessly sick of the threads that propose turning Eve into carebear heaven. Nevertheless my statement stands, it is an MMO. It benefits team-players. At no point have I said you should never solo Xavier and DarkMatter, perhaps you should read my posts before replying to them. Yes, you can solo. But you will have a hard time compared to those who work together. Simple fact of the MMO. You're quite amusing Miri Tirzan. That time of the month for you is it? I've engaged in the solo aspects of Eve on and off for nearly 3 years, I recognise its occasional necessity. However I don't come complaining on the forums when something goes wrong while I'm solo. And I certainly don't expect to achieve as much solo as I can in a group, again, simple fact of the MMO. I don't have a problem with you Dark. I just don't agree with your view. For the record: I am not trying to turn EvE into "Carebear Heaven" In fact, i would say the REAL carebears are those who war dec a guy in a Ore barge who is in no position to defend himself but I guess no one can grasp that concept.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Nicocat Such a huge number of failures on the forums recently, posting "Wah wah, I got ganked by Privateers/ore thieves/some grandma in a crow that messed up my defenseless mining badger." Get friends and enroll in a damned PvP class, or run and hide and play something else. This isn't a game for you. Was that YOUR grandmother in that Crow?? When you pay my 15 a month, that is when you can tell me which game isn't for me. Shut up kid.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Tanis Bastar Originally by: Xavier Raines I like how you guys say "just deal with it" but never offer any solutions. At least I came up with an ACTUAL IDEA. You and those like you have been offered several solutions in countless other threads, and yet you persist in whining. Let me repeat... 1) Go to a quiet sector; and/or 2) equip a tank. I mine solo all the time and the one time I was ganked during several months of play was my most profitable mining ever--the ganker was concordokkened and I picked up all of his T2 loot. FFS, please stop complaining about this... How about if I just keep complaining anyway? I have a solution to your problem too. Just don't read threads like this if they bother you? Some of you idiots act like someone is pointing a gun to your heads forcing you to read posts like these on this forum and then you whine " OMG! please stop complaining."
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:48:00 - [16] Originally by: Nicocat Edited by: Nicocat on 16/01/2007 15:42:56 Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: Nicocat Such a huge number of failures on the forums recently, posting "Wah wah, I got ganked by Privateers/ore thieves/some grandma in a crow that messed up my defenseless mining badger." Get friends and enroll in a damned PvP class, or run and hide and play something else. This isn't a game for you. Was that YOUR grandmother in that Crow?? When you pay my 15 a month, that is when you can tell me which game isn't for me. Shut up kid. Don't you underestimate my grandma, she could beat your newbie mining ass until you were blue in the face whining to CCP about how a 1-grandma corp can wardec a 1-newbie corp and kill him over and over, solely because he keeps complaining and doesn't have friends =P Also, ahem: Originally by: Whiner definitions The Majority Stockholder Seems to believe that $15 a month buys you a seat on the board of directors. Doesn't realize that a hundred thousand other people are ponying up the same amount. Sample Quote: "I've e-mailed the developers several times telling them that Fire Paladins should have the axe-throwing skill. They haven't changed it, but they're still taking my money!." Punishment: Forced to work customer service for an online game company. Your grandmother probably could. I seriously have respect for her pvp skills. Just tell her to quit ganking me in my Retriever please.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Xavier Raines Was that YOUR grandmother in that Crow?? When you pay my 15 a month, that is when you can tell me which game isn't for me. Shut up kid. Yeah, that's right. All of you stop contradicting Xavier, 'cause he pays 15 bucks a month. That makes him right in everything he says, and all of us freeloaders should really get off his back. Also, he certainly proved that he is not a child as he so elloquently told that other guy that he indeed was a child, and thus made his argument even stronger. Well done, Xavier. I applaude you. /Ki Hmm I never said 15 bucks a month makes me right in everything I say. Can you please point out where I said that? From now on, I am only accepting flames from posters who have a few brain cells. I am getting the real bottom feeders now.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:08:00 - [18] Cabadrin. Thank you. Finally someone posted something intelligent and well thought out on this subject even if it does goes against my OP. You actually almost convinced me. The problem to me though is games should be fun. We are paying for entertainment. True in the real world you cannot "hire a policeman" but that should not apply in a game like this where you can play for hours and lose everything you just did within a couple of seconds without any way whatsoever to stop it from happening. Especially if it is a case of a guy in a corp who just got war decced. It isn't the individual miner's fault that two sides are having a conflict even if he is in the corp. Unless he is the CEO of course. If Ore ships had a system of weapons viable for PvP so that a solo miner could at least defend himself, I wouldn't even be posting about this right now. However, as it is, they do not and even high sec miners are easy prey and the gankers doing it are playing on easymode.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Humpalot Originally by: Cabadrin What CCP has decided to do is emulate the ability of the modern police force. You can't hire a policeman to guard you as you walk down the street; rather, a policeman is on watch to make sure that if a crime happens, the lawbreaker faces justice. Both CONCORD and the real police deter crime through law and punishment, not through constant surveilance. Of course, some things the police do are not feasible in a virtual world: NPCs can't make decisions about intangible actions (i.e. if someone threatens you), nor can they prevent someone from using legitimate game mechanics in a hostile way. What they can, and do, accomplish is punishing guilty parties by destroying their ship and docking their security status. You are ignoring one glaring issue. That CCP has CONCORD come and blast your ship and dock your sec status is all well and good. Suicide gankers however have figured that this is a small price to pay and find it PROFITABLE to commit "crimes" anyway. In the real world we understand that if you get caught committing a crime you do not profit from it. What CCP allows here would be akin to me taking my car and ramming your Mercedes. Police come and impound my car and throw me in jail but totally ignore your friend who comes along at takes the Mercedes (or the stuff in the Mercedes if you prefer). Add that your insurance company pays you for your car as well. Yes I realize this is a game and not the real world and that game mechanics cannot emulate real life in all cases (nor should it). But this is sort of a fundamental understanding I think all people share. When you then consider that a dedicated suicider is near impossible to guard against where is the play balance? I could have ALL of MC sitting next to me while I mine in a belt and you could not stop a suicide ganker before he did his thing unless you wanted to be the one to initiate aggression and get CONCORDED with a sec hit. You cannot shoot the hauler coming to grab the loot either without getting CONCORDED/sec hit. Best you can do is beat them to the can and hope you grab my stuff before they do. Thank you. I could not have said it better myself. Brace yourself for being told to "go play WoW" by 15 yr olds or how "this isn't the game for you" now though.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:53:00 - [20] Originally by: galadran EVE is sucessful because it has something no other MMOG seems to offer. The ability to do anything. In EVE there is no magic force stopping me from killing those innocent hobbits over there and in the same way theres nothing to stop that angry policeman kicking my ass because of it. EVE is like real life. Unfair, Uncompramising and Valued. You are not being forced to play. You have a right to express your view but if people argue against you then thats there right as well. Get used to it. Uh, I don't mind if people argue against what I posted so I am not sure what I am suppose to "get used to."
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 21:41:00 - [21] Believe it or not, I just BSed the OP up and it isn't really something I believe should be put into the game. I just wanted to see how many tards would respond with "go back to Wow." because I was bored at the time and arguing with forum muppets can be a good form of low budget entertainment when you drank too much coffee and smoked too many cigarettes. So far only the third poster on page one and the kid who posted before you a couple posts up who thinks PvP in this game requires some sort of special skills actually mentioned WoW. Kind of disappointing considering there are over 100 posts now.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 21:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Brian Ballbag well you are clever,i bow to your wisdom. Thanks, Apparently I am more clever then four pages of people who took the bait at least.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:23:00 - [23] Spaja, I think "Sociopath" is a strong word when flung at people playing a video game. I do agree there are a lot of lame tactics, mechanics and players in this game however. Even though I was just joking about my OP, I think it at least sparked some good debate on both sides and some people made some good points both ways. I do agree with the majority that anything you do in this game solo or even in small numbers is taking a risk and you shouldn't expect game mechanics changed if you die or lose valuables. War Deccing a small corp just to grief them in Empire just because you can is rather lame though.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Spaja Saist Originally by: Xavier Raines Spaja, I think "Sociopath" is a strong word when flung at people playing a video game. I do agree there are a lot of lame tactics, mechanics and players in this game however. Even though I was just joking about my OP, I think it at least sparked some good debate on both sides and some people made some good points both ways. I do agree with the majority that anything you do in this game solo or even in small numbers is taking a risk and you shouldn't expect game mechanics changed if you die or lose valuables. War Deccing a small corp just to grief them in Empire just because you can is rather lame though. I have known a few players personally through the three and a half years I've been playing. As much as I hate to say it there have been quite a few sociaopaths playing this game. I think it has to do with the simple fact that you can do whatever you want to others. Eve really is the perfect sociopath playground. That may be true but you will find people like that in most MMO's which includes PvP. Before I played EvE, I played DAOC for 3 years and I can tell you that the same garden variety griefers and lamers exist in that game as well. Granted, in DAOC, the cost of losing a fight is practically zero compared to EvE but that doesn't excuse those people's behavior. Some people just have the mentality that they MUST win at any costs and some people have different views to what is "entertainment." /shrug
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: Brian Ballbag well you are clever,i bow to your wisdom. Thanks, Apparently I am more clever then four pages of people who took the bait at least. lol bait, its forum on the Internet you take it at face value. Anyone can lie its easy there is no consequence. Doesn't require any intellect. I didn't say it took intellect or that there was consequence. In fact, it was very easy because the responses were predictable knowing beforehand the venom the playerbase spews at people who complain about the game mechanics. I said a lot of people believed I was upset over something and I had a fun time arguing with them for three hours even though i don't really care about it one way or another. Sure I admit it was juvenile but what is your excuse for posting in this thread? Are you trying to put me into my place now? Being the "voice of reason?"...lol

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